Post by Dale on Aug 22, 2011 19:43:12 GMT -5
The Long Coats Trilogy; Part 1 – Forgotten Sons
First and foremost, I was a really big fan of the filmed version you released in 2008. It was a fairly intriguing story, with a nice mystery to it as well as a dark comedic edge which worked well with the somewhat dramatic subject matter. And without the constraints of actually having to film things, I was interested to see what exactly you could expand on.
And from the start, you answer that question with some pretty cool action moments and gun play, which show us the more dangerous elements of Jon Doe’s job and the ruthlessness of the Long Coat organization. It was a really effective and exciting way to open things and you worked in a lot of exposition as to whom Doe is and a little information on what it is he does, without feeling forced in. And the delivery was very tongue in cheek and the dark humour was definitely there which I was glad to see.
One of the things I think I enjoyed the most about this was how you really mirrored the characters of Lane and Jon. Both are doing some pretty terrible things, and both are using the excuse (in Lane’s case) of doing it to survive. Both have had people beg for their lives and both have used the excuse “it doesn’t work like that” to explain why they have to do it. It was an interesting dynamic and I liked the minor differences and subtleties to their reasoning and motivation and how they deal with the things they do. As Lane puts it, he enjoys the power he has over people. Whereas John, does these things to be free.
With the expanded, written version of The Long Cats. I half expected it to be packed with far more action and such, that couldn’t have been physically filmed at the time you filmed it. But I was glad to see, not only action elements but some great character moments too. My favourite of which, was Jon listening to the students in the bar. The discussion itself with the students was great, very pompous and naive whilst sounding self important. I loved the idea of Jon just listening, eyes burning a hole in Bill the Uni student talking about something he has no comprehension of understanding. Dragging him outside, the speech was spot on.
I was unsure of the relationship between Jon and Karren at first. It felt a little convoluted during the set up, and the “you interest me” deal just wasn’t really working for me. But it really comes together when Jon kicks her out of his house and when he reads the poem. I mean you can spend page after page, summing up what the Long Coats are, and how Jon feels about being one. But the poem hit the nail on the head really. And in fact, I think actually if you’d have cut out some of the moments where Jon does talk about it (as great as I think those scenes have been), the moment he reads the poem would have been more impactful. Because it would have been Karren seeing into him and sensing how he feels, as opposed to being told. And I think that would have strengthened the connection between them. The less is more approach if you will.
I must admit, I’m not a big fan of the Amy character. I don’t know what it is, but there’s a disconnect there. Jon Doe I get, Saint I understand. Even Lane and Jimmy make sense to me. But Amy just doesn’t quite do it for me. I know she’s supposed to be this big mysterious character, and she does some pretty messed up things, or maybe the constant use of the phrase “sweet cheeks” just rubs me up the wrong way. I’m unsure. I can’t explain it.
I also think that the Raven story/concept could have been introduced earlier. I know given the reveal towards the end, technically the Raven’s present in the majority of the film. But to me, it kind of just pops up at the end, and it plays such an important role in this and presumably given the ending, the next two films of the trilogy. So I wish the story that John tells via voice over could have possibly been worked in earlier (off the top of my head, maybe it could have been a conversation between Lee and Jon after Jon threatens Lee, telling him that a Long Coat killed a Work Dealer’s family) so it doesn’t came as a curve ball in the later parts of the 3rd Act. Or alternatively, you could have lane tell the story to Jimmy. He spends most of their interactions threatening Jimmy as is, and in a not so subtle manner I might add. So having him tell the story to Jimmy, and insinuating that he’s the Raven could work well, in firstly threatening Jimmy and then later on when Jon and Saint believe him to be the Raven which leads into the swerve.
Speaking of John and Saint, I think their friendship is one of the strongest elements to the story. We don’t need to know how they became friends, we don’t even know if they’re really like each other or not. But they need each other. They’re both in the same situation, they’re both screwed and they both know it. They’re all the other has really and they can relate to each other. And their conversations and exchanges put a smile on my face, whether it was the little jibes at each other, or the deadpan jokes or the meaty, serious conversations; it worked and they will work as the cornerstone of this trilogy. So I hope they remain important parts.
There’s a lot going on in this film, there’s a lot of different stories, character interactions and the like. I think maybe there’s one or two pieces that aren’t really necessary (the bar fight springs to mind) but for the most part it all kind of fits together rather intricately. The main story with Jimmy being kidnapped and Jon and Saint trying to find him kind of gets pushed to the background at times, for bits and pieces like Lee Herman and Jon’s interaction and Jon’s relationship with Karren. But never to the point where I felt it was neglected or under developed or anything like that. And you did a fine job in the end of making those other stories tie into the main one. I’m kind of sad we never got another scene with Karren and Jon after he reads the poem, or even a scene where Karren is writing about Jon again or doing something that relates to Jon in some way. I think there’s the potential to have an interesting relationship there and a bond that Jon needs. And I was definitely rooting for him to find that by the end of the film. So I hope that plays a part of the sequels.
Overall, it’s just an incredibly solid film. The work you’ve put into it is evident and it’s very well written with a lot of interesting ideas and concepts. You know your main characters very well and they’re intriguing and mysterious. Almost as much so as the Long Coats organization which, with the information we’ve learnt from this film, is still very vague. The dialogue was great and I recall plenty of lines from the filmed version that quite frankly worked better on the page (mostly Jimmy’s and Amy’s). I’m not sure if that’s a knock on their performances or a compliment to your writing, you can take it whichever way you like. I enjoyed reading it as much as I enjoyed watching the film, and I’m looking forward to seeing just what comes next. It’s a long script, but it’s well worth the time to read it.
First and foremost, I was a really big fan of the filmed version you released in 2008. It was a fairly intriguing story, with a nice mystery to it as well as a dark comedic edge which worked well with the somewhat dramatic subject matter. And without the constraints of actually having to film things, I was interested to see what exactly you could expand on.
And from the start, you answer that question with some pretty cool action moments and gun play, which show us the more dangerous elements of Jon Doe’s job and the ruthlessness of the Long Coat organization. It was a really effective and exciting way to open things and you worked in a lot of exposition as to whom Doe is and a little information on what it is he does, without feeling forced in. And the delivery was very tongue in cheek and the dark humour was definitely there which I was glad to see.
One of the things I think I enjoyed the most about this was how you really mirrored the characters of Lane and Jon. Both are doing some pretty terrible things, and both are using the excuse (in Lane’s case) of doing it to survive. Both have had people beg for their lives and both have used the excuse “it doesn’t work like that” to explain why they have to do it. It was an interesting dynamic and I liked the minor differences and subtleties to their reasoning and motivation and how they deal with the things they do. As Lane puts it, he enjoys the power he has over people. Whereas John, does these things to be free.
With the expanded, written version of The Long Cats. I half expected it to be packed with far more action and such, that couldn’t have been physically filmed at the time you filmed it. But I was glad to see, not only action elements but some great character moments too. My favourite of which, was Jon listening to the students in the bar. The discussion itself with the students was great, very pompous and naive whilst sounding self important. I loved the idea of Jon just listening, eyes burning a hole in Bill the Uni student talking about something he has no comprehension of understanding. Dragging him outside, the speech was spot on.
I was unsure of the relationship between Jon and Karren at first. It felt a little convoluted during the set up, and the “you interest me” deal just wasn’t really working for me. But it really comes together when Jon kicks her out of his house and when he reads the poem. I mean you can spend page after page, summing up what the Long Coats are, and how Jon feels about being one. But the poem hit the nail on the head really. And in fact, I think actually if you’d have cut out some of the moments where Jon does talk about it (as great as I think those scenes have been), the moment he reads the poem would have been more impactful. Because it would have been Karren seeing into him and sensing how he feels, as opposed to being told. And I think that would have strengthened the connection between them. The less is more approach if you will.
I must admit, I’m not a big fan of the Amy character. I don’t know what it is, but there’s a disconnect there. Jon Doe I get, Saint I understand. Even Lane and Jimmy make sense to me. But Amy just doesn’t quite do it for me. I know she’s supposed to be this big mysterious character, and she does some pretty messed up things, or maybe the constant use of the phrase “sweet cheeks” just rubs me up the wrong way. I’m unsure. I can’t explain it.
I also think that the Raven story/concept could have been introduced earlier. I know given the reveal towards the end, technically the Raven’s present in the majority of the film. But to me, it kind of just pops up at the end, and it plays such an important role in this and presumably given the ending, the next two films of the trilogy. So I wish the story that John tells via voice over could have possibly been worked in earlier (off the top of my head, maybe it could have been a conversation between Lee and Jon after Jon threatens Lee, telling him that a Long Coat killed a Work Dealer’s family) so it doesn’t came as a curve ball in the later parts of the 3rd Act. Or alternatively, you could have lane tell the story to Jimmy. He spends most of their interactions threatening Jimmy as is, and in a not so subtle manner I might add. So having him tell the story to Jimmy, and insinuating that he’s the Raven could work well, in firstly threatening Jimmy and then later on when Jon and Saint believe him to be the Raven which leads into the swerve.
Speaking of John and Saint, I think their friendship is one of the strongest elements to the story. We don’t need to know how they became friends, we don’t even know if they’re really like each other or not. But they need each other. They’re both in the same situation, they’re both screwed and they both know it. They’re all the other has really and they can relate to each other. And their conversations and exchanges put a smile on my face, whether it was the little jibes at each other, or the deadpan jokes or the meaty, serious conversations; it worked and they will work as the cornerstone of this trilogy. So I hope they remain important parts.
There’s a lot going on in this film, there’s a lot of different stories, character interactions and the like. I think maybe there’s one or two pieces that aren’t really necessary (the bar fight springs to mind) but for the most part it all kind of fits together rather intricately. The main story with Jimmy being kidnapped and Jon and Saint trying to find him kind of gets pushed to the background at times, for bits and pieces like Lee Herman and Jon’s interaction and Jon’s relationship with Karren. But never to the point where I felt it was neglected or under developed or anything like that. And you did a fine job in the end of making those other stories tie into the main one. I’m kind of sad we never got another scene with Karren and Jon after he reads the poem, or even a scene where Karren is writing about Jon again or doing something that relates to Jon in some way. I think there’s the potential to have an interesting relationship there and a bond that Jon needs. And I was definitely rooting for him to find that by the end of the film. So I hope that plays a part of the sequels.
Overall, it’s just an incredibly solid film. The work you’ve put into it is evident and it’s very well written with a lot of interesting ideas and concepts. You know your main characters very well and they’re intriguing and mysterious. Almost as much so as the Long Coats organization which, with the information we’ve learnt from this film, is still very vague. The dialogue was great and I recall plenty of lines from the filmed version that quite frankly worked better on the page (mostly Jimmy’s and Amy’s). I’m not sure if that’s a knock on their performances or a compliment to your writing, you can take it whichever way you like. I enjoyed reading it as much as I enjoyed watching the film, and I’m looking forward to seeing just what comes next. It’s a long script, but it’s well worth the time to read it.
Thanks Daz. Means a hell of a lot. I was held down a lot with this film because I had to hold onto certain things for parts 2 and 3.